Curse

stretchs · Dec 15, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

For God's sake at least don't have the "Charge" henchman in Echovald Forest, nothing is more annoying than watching your entire team get decimated by one HM Churning Earth skill because the henchman decided to use "Charge" to get out of it

Konig Des Todes · Dec 15, 2008, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

That's your first problem right there!
[Enfeebling Blood][rend enchantment][faintheartedness] > ALL the necro builds you listed.
The guys at A.Net messed up. So if the plan is to fix this - let's do it the right way, rather then just make thier shit stink less!

Except for the build insult, I agree, we shouldn't stick too much with what was started with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The second problem:
The things that work in HM, work in NM.
The things that work in NM, don't always work in HM.
Best evidenced by "OMG!!11 Let's add eles for WTF-PWN-damage!!!11!"
And in that spirit - no [blinding Flash] on the air ele!??!?!?

Also a agood point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

And third:
Skills change.
This is something we'd need to accept and embrace. And that is why - this would be the BEST way to balance PvE. You DELETE PvE(-only) skills - and nerf and buff EVERYTHING the way PvP guys want it!
You don't take PvE into consideration in the SLIGHTEST here.
And after you are done with that - you sit down and look what did those changes cause in PvE and then you modify the static PvE bars. You raised damage on certain skills - well then , you might want to look if the bosses using those skills doing double damage didn't get out of control. You killed of certain skills? Then you remove those skills of hench bars!

Delete PvE-only skills? BLASPHEMY! Jk, I personally hate EN PvE-only skills, but don't mind the Kurzick/Luxon and Sunspear/Lightbringer skills. But that's just because (aside from three generic skills) they are profession based - limiting the usage a bit. However, like some of the Sunspear skills ([["There's Nothing To Fear!"] and [[Critical Agility]), all the profession skills should get primary profession benefits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

(Oh and [Power Leech] sucks. It's a 20 sec recharge skill that interrupts spells - and steals energy. If you don't know what tu run - [E-Surge] or [Mantra of recovery] out of the core skills. And [CoF] should be on ANY mesmer bar - regardless of the hench's specialization.)

Gotta agree on this - I just stayed away from editing Mesmer builds because I don't use Mesmers (same with the Monk builds).

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

(Double oh! Don't get me wrong - there are a LOT more issues in the bars listed - but I'd first suggest to re-think your plan first! It doesn't make sense to change one skill on the bar - if the WHOLE idea of the bar is wrong!)

I'm starting to think upier should state his build ideas. I've stated mine, in both this thread (although its more like suggestions to the suggested builds) and in Bhaav's past thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

don't the henchie skill bars differ between HM and NM? Although your massive skillbar suggestion is exceedingly awesome in its entirety, i think you should post the NM and the HM suggestion of each henchman.

Only with non-level 20 henchmen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Neato

I'd rather leave hench alone and just allow however many heroes people wanted for PvE.

THen what's the point of the henchmen? I personally say turn some of the henchmen into heroes, increase the hero cap, then remove the rest of the henchmen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

To Azazel The Assassin:

Flare does more damage than Glowing Gaze so, without the Burning, I think Flare is unquestionably better.

[Auspicious Parry] is too defensive and [Primal Rage] is suicide on a henchman. Just ignore what I said about how skills "feel" XD I like Quivering Blade

[Lyssa's Assault] is more like a free attack skill more than energy management, and I think it's recharge is too long to be considered a useful damage-increaser. I'm very happy with what Gehraz has right now.

Cynn: Flare is spammable and henchman AI is stupid and would end up wasting too much energy on spamming that.

Talon: Primal Rage I said not to use due to it being suicide. Auspicious Parry isn't too defensive, and what's wrong with defense? You need some defense to be at least decent!

Gehraz: Just leave him be as he is in game now in that case. His usefulness is superb, even prior to his buff.

Age · Dec 15, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretchs

For God's sake at least don't have the "Charge" henchman in Echovald Forest, nothing is more annoying than watching your entire team get decimated by one HM Churning Earth skill because the henchman decided to use "Charge" to get out of it

I like Charge in Nightfall as nothing beats free run from Devona as well some places in Tryia.I see aegis has been put in.

upier · Dec 16, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Except for the build insult, I agree, we shouldn't stick too much with what was started with.

That was a Blood insult.
Unless you're going for Orders (which is just too specific for general PvE) - Blood sucks. Either make them into MMs or Cursers. (And that was my point with listing those 3 skills. They are just superior to anything blood can dish out!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

I'm starting to think upier should state his build ideas. I've stated mine, in both this thread (although its more like suggestions to the suggested builds) and in Bhaav's past thread.

Necros - curses.
Factions:
[enfeebling blood][rend enchantment][reckless haste][barbs][Lingering Curse][Faintheartedness][Weaken Armor][resurrection signet]
C1:
[enfeebling blood][rend enchantment][barbs][Spiteful Spirit][shadow of fear][Weaken Armor][Insidious Parasite][resurrection signet]
(I am fully aware of the contradiction between SoF and SS - but both are too good to miss. If you want to dump one - dump SS.)
C3:
[enfeebling blood][rend enchantment][Well of Darkness][barbs][Lingering Curse][Faintheartedness][Weaken Armor][resurrection signet]

Mesmer:
C1
[shatter hex][drain ench][empathy][CoF][power spike][power drain][mantra of Recovery][resurrection signet]
Factions
[shatter hex][drain ench][empathy][CoF][power spike][power drain][mantra of Recovery][resurrection signet]
C3
[shatter hex][drain ench][empathy][CoF][power spike][power drain][Visions of Regret][resurrection signet]
Illusion
[Clumsiness][Cof][power drain][drain ench][mantra of recovery][Arcane Conundrum][power spike][resurrection signet]

Ritualist
[life][splinter weapon][ancestors' rage][weapon of warding][spirit light][mend body and soul][flesh of my flesh][Protective Was Kaolai] (There is no point in running an elite if you have better options.)

Too sleepy to take this further.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 16, 2008, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

That was a Blood insult.
Unless you're going for Orders (which is just too specific for general PvE) - Blood sucks. Either make them into MMs or Cursers. (And that was my point with listing those 3 skills. They are just superior to anything blood can dish out!)

I politely, but angrily, disagree. I use a full blood build for all PvE, and for plenty of PvP too. Only way I die is when I am spiked with a crappy - or no - monk when I can't keep myself healed, which anyone would die under.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

-snip builds-

You serious? Where's the variety? You're builds are, in my honest opinion, must worse then a wammo with mending, healsig, and frenzy. Because there are some skills that would be better to take, and you prefer Shadow of Fear over SS, when you could go with [[Price of Failure] instead.

May I ask when you stopped playing GW? Because obviously you actually do not know what you are talking about when you seemed like you did before.

Schmerdro · Dec 16, 2008, 03:01 AM // 03:01

4 times in a row Arena-Net has gives us either Blood or non-MM-Death Henchmen. Somehow I don't think that was a coincidence. This thread is about following the format made by Arena-Net; if you don't like that then don't sign this.

Yes, I didn't add [Blinding Flash] because I though the Weakness from [Enervating Charge] was just as good and less energy intensive (since that build already had [Lightning Hammer]).

upier · Dec 16, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

I politely, but angrily, disagree. I use a full blood build for all PvE, and for plenty of PvP too. Only way I die is when I am spiked with a crappy - or no - monk when I can't keep myself healed, which anyone would die under.

You are playing PvE and PvP that no-one cares about.
That's why you think that Blood is good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

You serious? Where's the variety? You're builds are, in my honest opinion, must worse then a wammo with mending, healsig, and frenzy. Because there are some skills that would be better to take, and you prefer Shadow of Fear over SS, when you could go with [[Price of Failure] instead.

May I ask when you stopped playing GW? Because obviously you actually do not know what you are talking about when you seemed like you did before.

Because SoF and Enfeebling will pretty much negate all physical damage.
PoF has a fitting PvE name - it's a 20 sec recharge skill that affects a single target. I'd rather not.
SS is fairly shit - but it's damage in the cursing line and it's not like other elites are THAT much better. Hence my inclusion of Lingering in other builds. The only build that could include other skills that I'd consider worth taking would be the C3 one. Meekness, Rip, PoD would be very decent options - possibly even better then Faint, WoD, Rend - and that was something I was looking into and wouldn't have issues with being replaced.

And it's not worth being a unique snowflake when one could be effective instead.

newbie_of_doom · Dec 16, 2008, 08:40 AM // 08:40

yay better henchmen

I didnt look at them all but they looked pretty good.
Some of the skills would be bad on those bars, but since they're henchmen they should be like that. The basic idea of the bar is good, which is quite henchmen-like.
so /sign

Shadowlance. · Dec 16, 2008, 01:49 PM // 13:49

With the update to Life Sheath, I'm hoping ANet will remember Redemptor Karl and update his skill bar. Seems a waste to have Mend Ailment and Reversal of Fortune. There are definitely some better options they could give him now.

Schmerdro · Dec 17, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

I made a few changes:

Factions Healer Monk: [Signet of Devotion] replaced with [Dwayna's Sorrow]; [Remove Hex] for [Deny Hexes]; [Blessed Light] for [Boon Signet]. This build is much less energy-intensive.

EoTN Healer Monk: [Spotless Mind] replaced with [Cure Hex], [Spotless Soul] for [Healing Seed].
EoTN Protector Monk: [Life Sheath] replaced with [Peace and Harmony]. I thought that cheap and efficient condition/hex removal was more need that just extra healing.

Factions Blood Necromancer: Removed [Toxic Chill] because it is only in Nightfall; replaced it with [Discord]. This build will rely on its allies to spread conditions; [Rotting Flesh] is not used because it can easily backfire.

Nightfall Fire Elementalist: [Flare] replaced with [Fire Storm].

Factions Chiyo: [Displacement] replaced with [Shadowsong]. Displacement would only block 5 attacks and recharge in about 25 seconds.

Nightfall Paragon: [Leader's Comfort] replaced with [Signet of Synergy]; [Cautery Signet] with [Song of Purification]; [Energizing Chorus] with [Chorus of Restoration].